POC Voices from Pharmaceutical Leaders

Frank Biscardi [00:00:10] So I think for for this session we’re going to pivot and talk about Point of Care. No. There we go. There we go. I feel like I’ve been here since, what, 9:00. And there needs to be a bit more interaction from the audience in my opinion. So we’re going to do like a, a game where my little girls play sometimes, “would you rather.” So let’s do something. Raise of hands. The three areas are:  would you rather be a professional athlete? would you rather be a musician? or, would you rather be a movie star? Raise your hand for a professional athlete. Movie star. Musician. I think it was kind of a third or third or third. That’s not bad. That’s not bad. But. Anyway, my name is Frank Biscardi. I oversee the Point of Care team over at Havas Media Network, and, I’ll let my colleagues here introduce themselves and who they are.

Glenn Roginski [00:01:08] Hey, everybody. Glenn Roginski, Media Director on the Vaccines Portfolio over at Pfizer.

Melissa Wagner [00:01:15] Everyone. Melissa Wagner. Hopefully we can make this an interactive session with everyone and continue on Frank’s work stream there. I work at Merck as part of the media strategy and planning group.

Grace Rodriguez [00:01:25] Hello, I am Grace Rodriguez. I work at UCB and I am the DTC Portfolio Head in Immunology.

Frank Biscardi [00:01:33] So I think [00:01:34]the way we’re going to position this session is, is kind of focus on three topics. Top focus on measurement. I think that’s a big topic that people talk about today is how do we measure success of a campaign. Third is I’m sorry. Second is to talk about strategic approach for Point of Care. How do our partners here look at Point of Care within their overall patient pathway from a strategic angle? How do they see that? And also, it’s it’s been a conversation since I’ve been part of these discussions in the past is talking about how do we start to look at Point of Care as its own channel, where we could look at customized creative? [38.0s] So what are our partners doing in regards to developing custom creative to get the outcomes that they’re looking for with their patients. So, the first question I’m going to throw it off to, to Glenn is to really talk about just a side step here. Glenn, I have had a pleasure to work with together on Pfizer for about four years. I think we engaged with each other. So  I’ve known Glenn since 2010. So we worked on many brands together and actually we worked together on the Point of Care team. So you  oversaw that over at Pfizer. And I led a small group over our career building that Point of Care discipline for the Pfizer team. And I know for about four years, Pfizer kind of went away from the Point of Care marketplace. We don’t need to go into details on the why. We all know why. But, last year you reentered into that space, and I believe this year you’re expanding more on that. So we would love to hear what were decisions to drive that. And part two is what were the measurements you’re looking for to have in place to determine the success of the program or programs?

Glenn Roginski [00:03:20] Yeah, absolutely. Frank. Yeah. So as you stated, I mean, I think the the reason that Pfizer backed away from Point of Care, I think the industry knows, most of most of, folks in this room probably know, about that. And I think it was really kind of  an eye opener for us. At the time, my former manager, who was in charge of the media team at the timewas kind of answering questions from senior management and ffrom our lawyers about how could you guys let this happen, right? And so as part of that, it was kind of then making sure we really applied a lot of rigor towards knowing what our Point of Care media partners were doing, really digging in. I mean, in a few of the partners here, I won’t name any company by name. But even before we completely backed out of the space, we had a narrower list. We really made sure that those companies were really tight on what they were doing in terms of tracking, not only just our campaigns, but being able to measure how they were running campaigns, knowing that they could track every single impression. And and then we kind of made the decision. Look, they’re still my old bosses. Frank, I know   him. He’s not in the industry anymore. But he was very risk averse. Right. And we made the decision to kind of back out very risk averse. So we made the decision to back out. And once you take something away that marketers are used to having, the brand marketers are used to having, we were getting questions like every other month, “when can we come back and Point of Care?” or, “any change on Point of Care? When can we come back?” And ultimately through some conversations and, I guess on this one I can I can call out of name here, I guess about a month ago or so, they finally officially got their approval of the MRC accreditation. But, and we were having conversations with Mike Collette, back three years ago and Pfizer has a seat on the MRC and it really was put into place. I think it was like in the 50s or something like by the television industry to keep Congress from creating a mandate for measurement in that industry at the time. But it really is kind of the gold standard. And we felt like, look, if if a Point of Care company can get accreditation, we know that they’re legit. It’s a very, very rigorous process, as I’m sure  . Our friends at Patient Point can talk about this.  , Linda. And for a while, that was that was going to be our gold standard, MRC or nothing. And after , after–Ken was his name–my, my old boss left the company, we definitely, under our new CMO, we definitely had more of an appetite for risk taking again. And we’re also obviously in some categories kind of blocked out of inventory and there was an appetite for opening things back up. So we had some conversations with lead, publicist, Natalie, who I know is somewhere in the audience out there, and my colleagues, Courtney and James, and we met with with Nicole. And we talked through a lot of things to get a better understanding of what the accreditation required. And   obviously it’s not the same level of rigor as MRC, but it certainly from when we stopped doing Point of Care a couple years back, it definitely has become a lot more rigorous. And I think all of the Point of Care companies now have  really up their game. And for us that was , kind of we felt it was the time to start coming back into Point of Care.

Frank Biscardi [00:07:11] Okay. Now what about measurements? I know that’s always an ongoing discussion I think we have across the industry is how do we measure success of a specific program?  There are certain agencies that have their own proprietary tools to understand , where does Point of Care fit in the overall mix?  They they identify budgets that way. Other agencies use their own, whether it’s internal external. Studies interested to understand is how do you guys see ways to understand to drive success. Because I think what a lot of us get stuck on is how do you grow the channel itself. Because , what I’ve seen is they’ll allocate a budget. You see success, whether it’s an ROI measurement. You see other media channels getting a 2 to 1, 3 to 1 ROI. But then you see Point of Care specific partners like delivering 5 to 1 or 6 to 1. But there’s a hesitancy to add more dollars to that channel. And when you’re adding dollars, if you have $100 million brand spending and the budget’s $5 million Point of Care, adding another $2 million is not going to offset or hurt your TV campaign, whether it’s linear or connected TV. So how do you guys use that to help determine, hey, is there is there a success? And can we use this to help validate growth within this channel moving forward?

Glenn Roginski [00:08:32] For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think still the standard measurement for Point of Care is really working with, obviously, the big three, Iqvia, Crossix or Symphony. And I mean, that part hasn’t changed. And I think the big part is probably just having a little bit more transparency with those companies providing numbers directly to Pfizer, versus in the past. Right. And that was kind of where some of the manipulation came in. Was in those numbers or reports being provided to thou shall that not be named company and a little bit of manipulation. But, I mean, the process is effectively the same, right? So, it’s a,kind of test control pre- and post- analysis of covariation  looking at the lift. I think the second part of your question though was kind of like how do you validate and get more investment into Point of Care. Even though you see the results . So obviously once we we get those ROI reports and certainly they are a bit of like a lagging indicator to to kind of get to those numbers. I think the marketers always get excited when they see bigger ROI numbers.

Frank Biscardi [00:09:47] Does that scares you when you see a 10 to 1.

Glenn Roginski [00:09:50] It makes me suspect when we see like a 10 to 1. Yeah. So I mean, I think when we see something like that high, we definitely will dig into it and question it a little bit. I don’t think we’ve.

Frank Biscardi [00:10:00] But–sorry to interject, but what about if you dig into it and it’s validated. What are the thoughts?

Glenn Roginski [00:10:06] If we sit there and we have our  crunched numbers with Iqvia or whatever behind the scenes and they say, look, this is all valid then I mean, to me that that’s fantastic, right? Then clearly it would say like we want to put more money into this channel. I think your other part of your question is one, I think ,we still I don’t think we have it solved yet. I think we’re getting a little bit better. And with our new agency partners at publicists and a lot of the investment that Pfizer’s CMO is brought internally towards data and we are doing a lot more to modernize metrics both leading mid mid-stage and lagging indicators. I would say it’s still a bit of like a triangulation though, between the, the , the metrics that we would get from an Iqvia and then combining that with , market mix model metrics, clickstream metrics. And then I would say like blending a little bit of like the art into the science to of like strategically what’s the role of Point of Care. What’s our competitive set doing. And  I wish I had lsome kind of machine where I could pull the handle and would tell me, “okay, spend more here in Point of Care.” I will say it probably does still get shortchanged a little bit in lieu of TV. I think we’re getting a lot better at looking at an omni channel mix and putting money where we are going to get a better return for it, not just where historically we have. Pfizer historically has been a DTC TV company first, and we’ve gotten a lot better at that. But I will say, I think it’s beyond just the measurement. I mean, I think the measurement–and I know Melissa’s going to talk a little bit to after on this panel.

Frank Biscardi [00:11:56] There is three.

Glenn Roginski [00:11:56] There is three of us.

Frank Biscardi [00:11:58] I will get a word in here. I’m over my time here at times.

Glenn Roginski [00:12:01] Well, you said you needed me to fill some 40 minutes. So anyway, I like.

Frank Biscardi [00:12:05] I need to do this because I know Glenn.

Frank Biscardi [00:12:08] Let’s tee that up to you, Melissa and to you, Grace. If you’ll just add to that.

Melissa Wagner [00:12:10] I’m going to comment on the measurement.

Melissa Wagner [00:12:13] I’ll add to it, yeah. I think the [00:12:15]the ROI is doesn’t necessarily scare me when it’s that high. I actually think it’s a validation on how we’re activating the channel. [5.4s] And I think there’s a lot of conversations that happen around, are we in the best offices that we possibly can be to drive that return? And we’ll talk about that a little bit in the next section around strategies. And going to market, in which all offices are going to drive that return for you? But I feel like it’s a validation of what you’re doing. I think the more pumping more money into the channel is also when people are seeing numbers like that, they’re like, how can we invest more, right? Naturally, we want to make sure we’re able to monopolize on those dollars and take advantage of it. But it’s also balance with the conversation of there may not be any more inventory for us out there. Right? And that’s based off of how we’re strategically going to market or competitive presence that’s held on the inventory. So there are a lot of like things that we talk about as we’re getting these numbers right to make sure that one, it’s validated, but two, also, there there may be more money we can put into it but may not make sense. I think that’s a really important part to think about. The other point is like [00:13:18]we oftentimes have people looking at these ROI marketing mix modeling reports and they don’t really understand the whys that go into why potentially the numbers look the way that they do. We’ve had a lot of great success with competitive blunting of offices and that’s a strategy of ours. We may have very high riders within that office, and therefore we may not see the impact that we’re expecting to see, but it just comes out in the marketing mix model in the ROI. And someone’s like, oh, we’re going to move away from that because it’s not performing the way that we anticipated it would. And it’s very important to have those discussions right with your colleagues to say, let’s level set this information right, and the intention behind the strategy to make sure that it’s not just taken at face value of a number that’s on paper. [40.8s] So I think that’s really important as we talk about it and kind of socialize the results internally.

Frank Biscardi [00:14:06] Grace your thoughts?

Grace Rodriguez [00:14:07] Yeah. No, I mean, I, I would agree completely. I do think you have to [00:14:10]be smart in where you’re buying the Point of Care placements. [2.9s] Right. And you’ll talk about that in the next section. But I, we have also experience where we’ve had really high ROI numbers in Point of Care and everyone in the office was like, “oh my gosh, this is amazing.” And it is. But I also think kind of with the art and science, I, I at least internally think about it as, okay, yes, these numbers are incredibly high. They’re the highest ROI we have versus any other channel. But [00:14:37]truly, in my heart of hearts, do I really think this patient didn’t see anything anywhere else? I think the halo effect of your campaign in general, certainly makes an impact, even though we know we try to silo the results. To say that this is just from Point of Care. But I think in understanding in totality what you have out there and the fact that it’s the last place they’ve seen it before they speak to the doctor makes a huge difference. [23.1s] So I take those numbers–and we had some numbers in last year that we had validated three times over because we were like these can’t be right they’re really strong, they can’t be right. And sure enough, three different times , internally, whoever validated them, we felt strongly about them–and that then moves us into the next year’s planning and understanding that this is an important channel for us. And so I think once you can prove the success of it, including it or adding funding to it when available, it’s certainly a strategy to consider until you kind of hit that point or you figure out with your agency that when diminishing returns ends up happening.

Frank Biscardi [00:15:38] I think to your point, you said it’s an important channel. Getting to the next phase of this discussion back in ’06, when I first touched Point of Care on Pfizer, it was it was just the rationale was the last touch point and I think it’s more than just that. It’s not just that last touch point. So going to you, Melissa, when you look at Point of Care from a from a strategic standpoint, how do you view it today versus years ago in the evolution of Point of Care and all the opportunities that are there? And how do you engage with that consumer, that patient.

Melissa Wagner [00:16:11] Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the question. But before I do that, I just want to gauge the room. I know we have vendor presidents, we have agency presidents, and we have manufacturer presidents. So those that are vendors, suppliers, partners, however you would like to identify yourself, you could just raise your hand for me. Okay, how about our agency artners. Wonderful. And then our manufacturers. Here we go. Here, there. I like to say that, and I like to think about, that this is the power of this room. We’re all working towards one goal, right? And I think it was the doctor who maybe mentioned it’s for the patient, right? It’s to empower the patient. And we can’t lose sight of, of that goal, especially being in the Point of Care. And that really, truly leads to the strategy that you have in offices and being in the space for over ten years now and seeing the evolution of Point of Care. There are things there that are definitely evolved in how we go about Point of Care. But there are also things that have stayed kind of similar in ways. When we think about the target list, we oftentimes anchor ourselves to the target list internally. We see that folks on the consumer side are just getting lists from their counterparts, not truly understanding the makeup of the list. What’s the segmentation included in the list? To be able to better inform where we should be present with what type of message? And I say that because I believe truly that it’s a relationship. It’s a triangle relationship between the manufacturer or the agency, and the client to talk about these details. It’s really important to understand where are we placing our ads. And where are we going to make that impact for the patient? Coming from an organization where we have a very large product on the market that has multiple indications within it, we’re starting to think about our offices and where we have that presence on behalf of our brand. And you [00:18:02]think about the depth we’re in that office. Patients, while they’re in the exam room for a long period of time, at the end of the day, are they really going to circulate through all of those ads to see the one that’s relevant for them? And really just trying to think about if we have the target list as an anchor, what are additional data points that manufacturers like Merck can also help to inform, as well as the vendor community, to say what’s happening within that office? We may identify that office as a high rating office of a specific product. But what’s happening deeper within that office? Is there patient opportunity that we should be considering within that office, above and beyond that that that’s just a writing physician  and that, therefore, we need to be present within that office. So I challenge us as an as an industry to really, truly think about beyond the target list. We sit on a lot of data. The vendor community certainly sits on a lot of data. And how can we make better decisions to help empower patients to better outcomes? [56.4s] I also think that we, in EHR, and I’m not going to talk about EHR too much because it’s not an EHR panel, but we figure out a way to message physicians very precisely. We know that that physician is likely seeing a patient who has X, Y, and Z diagnoses codes within their patient chart. We’re know that they’re about to see that prospective patient. Why can’t we get to that within the exam room?  Which patients are coming in that day? So how do we use that data to say maybe these are the right messages that should be live within that platform for that day based on the patients that are coming into the office? So again, [00:19:36]the amount of data we all have is so powerful to be able to help and impact patients and I challenge us as an industry to really think beyond the list and, and how we use that data and ultimately to help patients. [12.9s]

Frank Biscardi [00:19:50] Now, just a follow up to that. Do you invite your agencies to collaborate on that, to go beyond that list, or is that typically something you’re keeping internally within your own company.

Melissa Wagner [00:20:02] Our agency partners over there? So they’re probably like, I don’t know if she’s going to tell the truth up here or not. But again, I think it’s [00:20:08]I think we should empower the agencies to ask the questions of just right and truly understanding the list that you’re digesting or the list that’s being passed off to a a Point of Care vendor. It’s up to you [agencies] to understand that list, too. And you should be pushing back on the manufacturers. [13.7s] They help me understand the different segmentation within this list, to ultimately come up with a recommendation back to the client to say, “Here’s why we’re recommending only doing these offices right based off of everything we understand.”

Frank Biscardi [00:20:33] All right, I agree. I think it’s just an extension of your strategic approach. So why not have insights into developing that list and what what you should be pursuing? Grace. What are your thoughts?

Grace Rodriguez [00:20:43] I mean, I would I would completely agree. I don’t think you want to go in blind and just email over the Excel spreadsheet of the target list. But we do go through the segmentation internally and and share that out, when we can ,of that target list to make sure that we understand, our agency understands, and then the partners will understand. Here’s why these people are so important to us. Here’s why we know we need to be here. Here is an added bonus, or whatever it is. But pulling through that data into your strategy, to me is critical. You’re not going to get the high ROI numbers you’re looking for if you just kind of throw everything out blindly. So, to us, we do something very similar in understanding the segment within each target in the target list.

Frank Biscardi [00:21:27] Like, well, how about yourself? I mean, it’s Pfizer’s comeback. Yep, so it’s it’s kind of a fresh look at the space. And how have you view that.

Glenn Roginski [00:21:36] Yeah I mean I would say right now we’ve been still kind of crawling a little bit right now getting back into the space. There I would say a lot of promise though with our new agency purposes. I mean, one of the reasons that we kind of tapped into them is the richness of the data that they have available. And there is now we’re building almost kind of like parallel paths internally and with access to allow for a lot more fluidity of data flow across our , from Pfizer and purposes, and back and forth. So I do expect,  going forward, our segmentation is going to be a lot richer. I wouldn’t say right now that we’ve applied it yet to a Point of Care. We’ve still been fairly traditional in using lists, but, going forward and we’re starting to do it really in a lot of other media now. So I feel like Point of Care is the next frontier that we deploy it in.

Frank Biscardi [00:22:30] I think the less we have time for the last segment. Is talking more about custom creative. I that’s that’s always been in the discussion. [00:22:41]The investment sometimes in Point of Care is is small and scale versus let’s say linear TV or connected TV or even display. And a lot of times it’s repurpose assets that we just put into that space. Unless it’s a customizable program, there are some programs that we pursue with in Point of Care that requires custom creative. But in the instance where we’re looking at just repurposing existing assets is is there more dialog around the idea of developing custom creatives specifically for Point of Care, because they’re in a different mindset and the messaging needs to be different when they’re in that facility versus being at home in a in a leisurely manner. [41.1s] So I’m curious, Grace, in your from your perspective, whether you’re activating it now or at least the thoughts of there to to push towards that, that that idea of looking to develop custom content, custom creative. And how do you see that?

Grace Rodriguez [00:23:37] Yes. So thank you. I specifically asked for this question because I have so much heart behind it. I get like real heated when I go in and you see a TV spot running or it’s your print ad used on the wall board. It drives me crazy. So I think we’ve heard 16 times today meet the patient where they are. And we do all this work to figure out the patient journey. We talk and we say, ‘let’s meet them where they are with the right message at the right time.’ Well, to me, there’s no more important time than when you’re in the doctor’s office. And so it is a mandatory, if you are on my team or an agency of mine, that the Point of Care creative is specific to Point of Care. We’ve now learned and we spend all this time making art. We shoot, write your TV commercials in three different formats. So you have it for social, you have it for TikTok, you have blah, blah, blah. But Point of Care gets easily forgotten. And I think to us, when you were talking about strategically thinking about placement within your media buy we have found–I work in immunology, $2 billion, is what is spent within the immunology space within media nearly. It’s it’s bananas. So the competitive space is super crazy. It’s packed. So how do you stand out? So to us, when we were looking at both a legacy brand and having a launch brand, it was search and then Point of Care where were top priorities. And then we kind of filled in the buckets after that because we have the opportunity to reach those patients right where where, hopefully, it’s super impactful right before they meet the doctor. [00:25:08]But to not have messaging that speaks to them in that moment, to me is a huge miss. So it is it is not ‘here’s our TV spot.’ It is. ‘Hey, you in that seat right there.’ I think about patient testimonials. How impactful it would be if you’re sitting in a dermatology office and you suffer from plaque psoriasis, or whatever it may be, and you hear a patient say, ‘I’ve been in that chair, I’ve been there. I know I only have 15 minutes with the doctor. Let me let me tell you some things you should ask the doctor. Think about these things to say before you go in.’ And I think there’s even distinctions between, the waiting room TV and the exam room boards. So you prep their brain while they’re in the waiting room. And then perhaps when you’re in the exam room, it is a copay message. It is a patient support program message. It is don’t forget to ask this question kind of message. And it’s you want to feel or make them feel as if you are there for them truly and you’re accompanying them into this doctor’s office and a support to them [57.6s] versus just a reminder that, oh hey, we might help you do this or that. So to me, it’s it’s as imperative as thinking about TV and social and, and all of that because it is a captive moment. Sometimes we end up waiting 30 minutes within that, within the doctor’s office. Or, I remember when my kid’s pediatrician switched to the freesia check in and I remember thinking like, oh, what is this? This is so weird. I got the tablets before Covid. You get this orange tablet, you’re like, oh, okay, whatever. And you get it. And now I’m like, oh my gosh, I wonder if I’ll get served in that like as I’m going through it because I want to see it. Thankfully, knock on wood, they’re all healthy and we’re very lucky that way. But  you want to see it come through and you’re captive, you’re checking in and you have to see it. So why wouldn’t you have a message where you’re checking in and it makes the most sense to them versus something they might have seen on TV or in print.

Glenn Roginski [00:26:57] So I think that’s a really good point, because [00:26:59]if you think about, with social, so many times we have like best practices for social creative, right? We don’t just do the same thing in social that we do for TV But yet Point of Care–we were talking about this backstage–oftentimes a lot of it is like our marketers have a certain amount of scope with their agency. And , sometimes Point of Care is , I hate to say it, but sometimes it is a bit overlooked or afterthought and they’re focused on their TV and they’re so. And so they don’t have the scope for the agencies to develop something custom. So I think it needs to be kind of a paradigm shift [36.6s] of  thinking about it all together. Like you said, when you’re doing your TV shoot, you’re shooting in different formats for social. It really almost needs to be thought about, like what different messaging do we need? And the Point of Care space?

Grace Rodriguez [00:27:47] Yeah, exactly. Do you I know it adds to sorry.

Frank Biscardi [00:27:49] Go ahead. Do you think there’s progress being made though, where it was? Is it just more ideation? It’s just this is what we love to do.

Glenn Roginski [00:27:57] I mean, I think again, a lot of it, it sounds like , I mean, Grace has, with her creative background, has a little bit more requirements for her team to kind of do that. I don’t think it’s so much that it’s there’s not progress being made. I just  oftentimes think, again, [00:28:16]if our brands aren’t planning for it upfront, it’s hard later to come back and adjust for it because then it’s just it’s more expensive, both from agency costs as well as changing any elements in the creative that need to be reshot. [16.4s] The other element too, which is more of a time constraint, is just the MLR reviews. Because any time we’re creating something custom, it has to go through again, right? For us, if we have a TV ad, we can just easily repurpose that. It doesn’t have to go back through MLR review, but if it’s a custom unit, it’s a separate review. So it’s it shouldn’t be a barrier. But it to to a degree is.

Melissa Wagner [00:28:59] I heard it’s great to hear from both of you. [00:29:01]I don’t know if I have a different perspective on this, just based off of where Merck is right in the industry and in housing creative versus having external creative services and being able to create derivative content and build out and push out content. We don’t have to worry about agency scope and things like that. But I do agree that there is work to be done. [23.3s] We appreciate the vendors in the room who push us right to think about and consult on our behalf as it relates to our creative, to make sure that we’re putting the best message within offices. I like the point you mentioned about [00:29:38]oftentimes we want to go with brand awareness, but in reality, what the patient needs and in that seat is support. [5.0s] And the awareness will come. Right. The name will come. But they’re really looking for support from pharma, and what materials we can give to them. So I don’t share maybe a little bit of a different sentiment. But I also believe that [00:29:57]we should be when we’re talking about how we go after certain offices, we should also be thinking about what’s right for that respective office versus this blanket approach. Every office is different. Every office has diverse patients. How should we be looking at that, and how can we activate with the vendors in the space [17.3s] to say, we know Florida Cancer Center. Maybe they need more patient support materials versus other centers. And so really thinking about if we can as, as manufacturers push out the right creative, how do we make sure it’s customized based off of the office which we’re presents with.

Grace Rodriguez [00:30:31] Then can I add one more thing to. Yeah, we.

Frank Biscardi [00:30:33] Had a time. Yeah.

Grace Rodriguez [00:30:34] Okay. I think the other thing, just to be mindful of  comes down to prioritization too. What’s important to you. And it’s important to us, right. That our social assets make sense. And then they’re showstopping. And you want the thumb scroll to stop, etc.. So we think about that and we prioritize that when we’re making the creative. But [00:30:52]I would challenge everyone in the room to just think a little bit differently when it comes to all of the channels that I think, within pharma, we often make the assumption that it has to be beautiful and perfect in high quality. There’s there is something to be said about a down and dirty video or shooting on the iPhone. [16.6s]  Our creative agency, it wasn’t for us, but I got to see some of the work–they just shot testimonials on an iPhone. It looks amazing and it feels so real and raw. And so [00:31:19]there are opportunities to to create these assets in a way that don’t cost what we assume they’ll cost, [5.4s] right? I know there’s talent usage and all that kind of stuff, so I’m not naive to that. But there are other ways to kind of save time and money to to support the initiatives because, to me, it’s not worth investing in a channel if you aren’t using it properly. You might as well just put it more in TV if you’re going to run your TV spot, but put the money in TV and go from there versus really trying to make an impact where you’re just kind of taking up space for those of us that want to do the work to to pull it through in a way that is impactful. So, just just a thought on on the kind of time and money that does go into each and every asset we make. Because we were talking about this backstage, too. Pharma is inevitably more expensive than non pharma. I came from the agency side outside of pharma and my hair almost fell off when I heard how much it costs.

Glenn Roginski [00:32:10] What happened?

Grace Rodriguez [00:32:11] Certain? Yes. What happened? Why don’t  when you hear how much it cost to make something or how much time it takes? And I didn’t have the understanding of MLR timing and all of that when I came in kind of fresh from a CPG agency. So that was really good. So, yeah, I was gonna really tease you upfront. Yeah. So anyways, I think it is it is so important. I clearly have heart for it. And I am more than happy to talk to anybody about how to do these things down and dirty and a little bit faster. I think there are plenty of different ways. It doesn’t have to be completely net new. It’s small tweaks that you can really make to whatever asset it is to to run it in Point of Care.

Frank Biscardi [00:32:53] Well, we have like 3.5 minutes and I’m going to go off script. If Nicole’s not going to get mad and and just teed up to the audience. Does anybody have a question or two that’s Miller friendly to the panel if if not no big deal. No pressure. But if anybody wants to throw out a question, feel free. Raise your hand. No. Great. Okay. Well, Glen. Melissa. Grace, thank you for your time.

Glenn Roginski [00:33:17] Thank you for having me here.

Frank Biscardi [00:33:18] Thank you, guys for listening.