Healthcare leaders are monitoring fast-moving policy changes of the new administration. How should healthcare marketers prepare? For this session of POC NOW 2025, you’ll hear from experts on potential legal, regulatory, and policy changes and how they might impact our business strategies and key decisions. Learn about the regulatory landscape of direct-to-consumer (DTC) marketing and the importance of understanding compliance, privacy laws, patient-centric engagement, and data-driven strategies.
Jim Potter ▷ 0:08 Good afternoon. I’m the afternoon big voice. So I’m here to wake you up. And if I can’t wake you up, I’ll scare you to wake you up here. So we’re going to talk about going into it right now.
Jim Potter ▷ 0:25 If I can get this to work. There we go. An advertising tax ban. Now, this is an idea that is not new. It really started cooking in the 1980s and comes and goes, but it’s been recirculated by Robert Kennedy Jr.
Jim Potter ▷ 0:41 When he was running for president, now Secretary Kennedy. And he said that when he was going to be in office the first day, he was going to issue a ban on pharmaceutical advertising on television. So he doubled down later in the campaign on some events. And he said just before the election, he says, here we go. He said, trump back in the White House and me in D.C.
Jim Potter ▷ 1:13 so we can ban pharmaceutical advertising. And this post was of course seconded and supported by now FCC Chairman Brendan Carr and a guy named Elon Musk. So we’re off to the races. Now, right around Thanksgiving, I got a call from a friend who was working the transition. He said, jim, you need to know two things.
Jim Potter ▷ 1:36 He said, one, they’re taking all the campaign promises and they’re listing them on a list and then they’re dedicating team to work on that issue. He said, number one, your issue is on the list. All right, thanks. He says, number two, and most important, he said, if you think it’s just television, think again. So I’m going to repeat that because I see a lot of people advocate, oh, it’s only going to be linear television.
Jim Potter ▷ 2:07 We’re all good. Here’s what you need to do. You just need to push it over into this. Think again. And we’ll go a little bit more into that.
Jim Potter ▷ 2:15 So we’ve been developing a three part strategy since that time, putting it in place. And the thing you have to remember here is that President Trump is a very transactional leader. You’ve probably witnessed a lot of what he’s been doing over the last couple months. And so what does he and HHS secretary, what do they want to get out of this? They want.
Jim Potter ▷ 2:41 And the President loves leverage. He loves leverage. So on this issue, who do you think he wants to leverage on? Anybody? Pharma, pharmaceutical.
Jim Potter ▷ 2:53 Right. Who’s the second bigger target? Broadcasting. It’s broadcasting. And on this issue, probably Fox News is our best friend going right now because they’d be thrown in with everybody else.
Jim Potter ▷ 3:12 So with that, I think you have to say that there’s also going to be and you should have expected there’s going to be state spinoffs. So we have three state bills and they apply broadly to quote any promotional communication targeting consumers. And you can see they list the watershed. So the Oklahoma legislator, the senator who wrote this had some help. It’s clear, real clear.
Jim Potter ▷ 3:41 It’s too sophisticated for a first time bill. Expect Connecticut did and then Texas of course took the same definition that they have in Oklahoma. So we have three very, very broadband bills that are out there right now. I think this is if we get an ad ban, it’s going to look more like this then very, very, very narrow. Remember, president hates policy.
Jim Potter ▷ 4:03 He loves leverage. So the thing that we have going for us in implementing is really how do we use the history of courts, cases, regulations and legislation in our favor. And you have going as an industry for you some really great Supreme Court precedents.
Jim Potter ▷ 4:33 And I talk about this first because I think the first thing I wanted to articulate to if you see an ad ban, if it’s in an executive order or rulemaking, keep calm, stay the course. Don’t cancel your ad buys. Again, don’t cancel. Don’t cancel your ad buys. And why there’s a thing called constitutional ripeness.
Jim Potter ▷ 4:59 And that means that the president can say whatever he wants and he usually does. But to enforce it, he needs an agency to take some specific action that they have authority to do. So. And so the agency that has clear authority is fda. So FDA would have to have something and that’s going to take, take a little bit of time.
Jim Potter ▷ 5:19 So it gives us, even if it would come out tomorrow, we’d have a little bit of breathing room because FDA would have to kind of muster, come together and say, well this is how we’re going to enforce it. But I want to tell you here is that we’re going to challenge anything like that that comes forward. So back in the 1960s, there was a series of cases that basically said that that commercial speech is a form of free speech and we have rules behind it. And they came up with, they came up with by the 1980s they came up with, they called the Central Hudson test. And so there’s three tests here.
Jim Potter ▷ 6:05 One can’t be misleading. And that’s basically the FDA’s rules. They’re all on misleading. And so they kind of grew up together on that run. Second, if you can only ban if it directly advances a government interest.
Jim Potter ▷ 6:19 So most clear example is probably cigarette smoking. They could make that one on one. But annoyance on ads probably doesn’t amount. So another One would be like the fear balance of risk. That’s another way that you could do it through.
Jim Potter ▷ 6:35 The third thing, which is you can do it in a less restrictive means, so you can put a special label on it. You can talk. You have to balance risks versus benefits. That would be restrictive. The other thing that we have going is this past summer, the Chevron doctrine was struck down by the Supreme Court.
Jim Potter ▷ 6:56 And that means that any rulemaking, any executive order, has to be directly tied to legislation. If it’s not, it’s more legally challenged. And so that’s what we’re doing. So we’re talking about strategies here. And our first one really was, okay, we started right in December, and I think Now I’ve done 15 interviews.
Jim Potter ▷ 7:21 Two of them came out in the last two days, but they’re all centered around that basically banning prescription drugs. Advertising won’t be that easy. And you’re starting to see that resonate in the media. We just saw a political story came up today who I talked to, and basically everybody’s kind of hoeing to that. Everybody kind of sees the logic.
Jim Potter ▷ 7:46 So that’s what we wanted to do. And I’m going to declare at least success on the first part because as you saw, the strategy by the administration was to fill the box, do as many executive actions to get everybody off, to get as much leverage as you can to spin heads. So we expected that. So we think actually this media strategy has played a big factor that you haven’t seen anything yet. Does that mean that you won’t?
Jim Potter ▷ 8:13 Probably not. Sometimes people just can’t help themselves. And so I still think if I’m a betting person, we’re going to see something from the administration. How broad, expansive, what not, who knows? Okay, so here’s some stories, and again, you can kind of see right in the title from these.
Jim Potter ▷ 8:33 It’s like, yeah, not going to be that easy. The second thing that I think when you’re under attack, you should be able to articulate who and what you are quickly. You need to have the elevator speech. We’ve developed about 15 of those and we’ll talk about some others, but that’s something that you should have in your hip pocket, know what your industry, what your business is about, and be able to articulate why it’s good for patients, why it’s good for the U.S. economy.
Jim Potter ▷ 9:01 You need those now. And third, the second thing that we’re doing is we’re preparing a legal challenge. And so we’ve been organizing groups for the last three months. And we have a Legal team all lined up ready to pull the trigger. So again, I kind of go back to again, don’t panic, stay the course, don’t cancel your ad buys if you see something like this.
Jim Potter ▷ 9:27 Now, the thing that probably is still going to be in play is going to have to do with the tax bill. And this year I think we’re $34 million in debt and that’s growing by a couple billion every year. There are 30 provisions that in the 2017 Trump tax bill that are going to expire by the end of this year. So Congress is going to do something. They’re going to go through a budget reconciliation process to get that done to avoid the Senate filibuster.
Jim Potter ▷ 10:05 Now, the House and the Senate have two different versions of how they’re going to spend. You’ve probably seen that, you know, there’s $880 billion and a lot of hospital cuts in there. Well, that’s just the first round. They have to come together on a budget resolution that even when they have that resolution, other things will happen. And so the second half of the political story was today.
Jim Potter ▷ 10:28 Oh yeah, yeah. This new study that came out. And if you took the tax deductibility away from pharmaceutical advertising, that would be maybe about a billion and a half in savings per year. Again, it’s a kind of third party study. We don’t know how accurate, but I think that’s the greater challenge as we move into this year, probably through the summer and they’re debating the details.
Jim Potter ▷ 10:54 That’s what we kind of have to watch. So there is a bill and there’s a CBO estimate that kind of comes up. But that’s for all advertising. If I had to say, if you’re going to limit pharmaceuticals to half in the year, spend and then amortizer by 5 or 10 years, then you could get 4 to 8 billion dollars out of that, roughly. So that’s what we’re really kind of focusing on probably in the second part of this year.
Jim Potter ▷ 11:22 And we’re going to need your help on this one because it will come into play when they go looking for dollars. So there’s a group called the Advertising Coalition. You can see their address there, their URL. There’s. And we just developed a study to basically be able to articulate what the economic impact of a ban on all advertising.
Jim Potter ▷ 11:44 And then we’re going to have to do the same thing on pharmaceutical advertising to say this is how you get impacted at the national, state and even congressional levels. So with that, I’ll conclude my remarks. I Hope you’re still being able to digest properly. And now we’ll go into a little bit of a discussion.
Tish Pal ▷ 12:03 That one’s mine, too.
Kim Maney ▷ 12:04 Oh, are you supposed to sit here? I think you’re supposed to sit.
Tish Pal ▷ 12:09 Oh, am I supposed to sit here? Yeah.
Jim Potter ▷ 12:10 Tish Pal ▷ 12:11 Okay. Whoops.
Kim Maney ▷ 12:13 Yes. And you’re supposed to.
Tish Pal ▷ 12:14 So here.
Kim Maney ▷ 12:14 Yeah. Or. Yeah. Or over here. That was the.
Jim Potter ▷ 12:17 I’ll be over here.
Tish Pal ▷ 12:19 All right.
Kim Maney ▷ 12:20 Just following direction.
Tish Pal ▷ 12:24 Hello. And I hope you all are awake after that and maybe not terrified, because a goal of this is not to have you immediately cancel all of your business plans and to run off to a desert island. So I’m Tish Paul, and you’ve heard from Jim, and we’ll be hearing from Kim, too. Really delighted to be in front of all of you. So what I’m going to be doing is leading a chat over the next 29 minutes or so, and we’ll be focusing the time that we have left on the fact that, as Jim put forth, yes, there are these threats to the category, and some of them are pretty serious, but there are excellent legal defenses.
Tish Pal ▷ 13:08 And interestingly, you all have the opportunity to sort of be mini lawyers in the sense that you can help in what you do to inoculate the category against these threats that might be coming in from federal or from state legislation. So we happen to think that there are a lot of distinctions between traditional DTC advertising and point of care. We think those distinctions are really important. And as Jim had wrapped up, very important as a part of your messaging. And so what we’ll be doing is talking about how these different things that you do every day to facilitate the point of care communication challenge, how these end up inoculating point of care from these legal threats.
Tish Pal ▷ 13:58 So the first thing that we’ll be doing is that I want to talk to Kim about what she sees. How do you see point of care as being special and unique from regular dtc?
Kim Maney ▷ 14:11 So, I mean, I think they both, for sure, have value. But from a point of care perspective, what’s special about the category is the directness, the personalization, meeting the patient and the hcp, like, right in that moment of decision. And so one of the challenges that you might see to consumer advertising is that you’re giving information, but there’s no kind of context.
Kim Maney ▷ 14:40 What you find, as you all know, in point of care is that you have the opportunity as a patient, when you receive the inferior, to get feedback about that messaging directly. In that moment, you get to talk to the pharmacist, you get to talk to the doctor it also creates a vocabulary between both the HCP and the patient because they’re both getting the messaging. You can imagine kind of the feedback that we get from doctors about commercials and about the things that we kind of send out. And then the patient comes in and says, I want this and that. They sometimes are not happy about that.
Kim Maney ▷ 15:20 But what I think works better is that both the HCP and the patient are seeing the messaging kind of in the same moment in an office, in a pharmacy. And the patient can say, I want this. And they can see the messaging and be able to provide feedback in that moment. It also helps the patient to receive information because they’re getting it in a healthcare setting mostly or where they’re going to be talking about health care. It helps to anchor it, I think, better in their brain, helps them to remember, helps them to really think about it more.
Kim Maney ▷ 15:58 And so that, to me is the difference between like a blast to many. If you think about some very, very sensitive disease states or disease states where it’s very complex, that point of care messaging can be, might be the only place where both the patient and the doctor are getting each other’s perspective.
Tish Pal ▷ 16:23 Super helpful. Thank you. So some things that make point of care unique, that immediacy, that interaction right there with the healthcare professional, the fact that it can be more in depth and very educational.
Tish Pal ▷ 16:37 So, Jim, those are some of the advantages that Kim has been talking about. How did those factor into the legal defense of the category? Jim Potter ▷ 16:46 Well, we don’t know exactly what it’s going to look like. That’s the reality. Except you start to see it in some of these state bills.
Jim Potter ▷ 16:56 But if you look at that, it’s very, very broad. Now with would point of care be involved in that? Could be, could not be. So that’s why being able to differentiate, to explain what and who you do to legislators, how it works, how it’s different. And actually, I think if you can pull up, someone can pull up the next slide for me.
Jim Potter ▷ 17:19 You have something like that already started. Here we go. So this is something that people poca MA has already started on. And I would have you take that and I would look at those points and I would have you make it your own. All right.
Jim Potter ▷ 17:40 Think about it, how it applies. And if nothing else, this should be part of what you talk about every day in your business, particularly when you’re talking to providers. So I think this is the strongest defensive for you to be able to get out and articulate how you differ from broadcast DCT ads.
Tish Pal ▷ 18:04 So great. So you now all have that. So you can scan it and you can take a look at it. And I love that idea of adapting it, making it your own and making this a part of the selling point or selling sounds so harsh, but that’s what we’re doing. But the key is to be able to articulate those benefits of the category, because if you can articulate those benefits, it becomes much more difficult to attack the category.
Tish Pal ▷ 18:28 Which brings me to something else, and that’s that those First Amendment commercial speech protections that Jim talked about only apply when the speech is not misleading. And in order to be able to ban the speech that we all are engaged in, the government would have to show that that ban is going to further some substantial interest. So I want to bring it back to Kim to talk about what protections should be in place in point of care communications to protect the patient and preserve that important relationship between the patient and the health care provider.
Kim Maney ▷ 19:10 So I’ve spent probably the last, let’s say, 10, maybe 15 years reviewing categories and vendor presentations as part of kind of a digital activation group that I am the lawyer for. And so the thing that I’m always asking our service providers to do is really think about when you are dealing with patients, health information, the consents, right patient first thinking about their privacy, building trust, being able to explain how what you are doing adds value, access, education, et cetera, in the model.
Kim Maney ▷ 19:50 I certainly have had presentations where it was very clear the person did not understand how their company made money and could not explain to me what the data flow like the flow of data and information. And the. I will say the most successful companies are able to do that. They’re able to say, I have a purpose for what I am doing that has value for an HCP and value for a patient. And it is not just about getting a bunch of information and selling it to somebody, that there is a value proposition to what you’re doing and that you’re.
Kim Maney ▷ 20:29 And that you are executing that in a way that builds trust with both of those customers.
Tish Pal ▷ 20:38 So in that position, you’d mentioned that some people would come in and they didn’t really understand how their companies made money. What are you looking for from a vendor to make sure that they’re aligned with your goals and with protecting the patient interest in advancing that important dialogue?
Kim Maney ▷ 20:55 Well, I think I’ll start with understanding your business model and because I do ask, you know, in all those presentations, tell me how you make money and understanding the evolving kind of privacy landscape. Right.
Kim Maney ▷ 21:09 It is very different. I felt like I was insane probably for a little bit of like, from like 2020 to 2022, because all these state laws were happening and everyone would show up like, nothing. And I’m like, am I crazy? Crazy? And I would continue to see kind of service providers showing up in a space not like California didn’t happen, and continuing to try to use patient information.
Kim Maney ▷ 21:34 So being aware, showing up again, patient first, building trust with your customer, understanding the changes and being in front of them. What I love is to get an email to get a call from a service provider that’s like, this change has happened. This is what we’re doing so that we are making sure that our customers are aware of how their information is being used. This is an update that we’ve made. You don’t have to tell us.
Kim Maney ▷ 22:06 These are our customers that we are providing you access to. And these are changes that we are making just to get ahead of, of some of those laws. I love when I talk to people about ccpa, California Privacy act, and they say to me, that doesn’t apply to me. You know why that’s important? Because you read it and you know that it exists.
Kim Maney ▷ 22:28 So it’s just like being aware. One question I always ask my clients at GSK is, do you understand the legal risk for the work that. That you’re doing? And if you don’t, go ask your lawyers what it is and then be prepared to explain it to the customers that you work with, like how you are mitigating those risks.
Tish Pal ▷ 22:53 Super, super valuable, maybe for some of those in the room, about what it takes to impress you, huh?
Tish Pal ▷ 23:04 I mean, that’s what people want in and to be able to protect patients. Right?
Kim Maney ▷ 23:09 Tish Pal ▷ 23:10 So in the time that we have left, you know, let’s take another look at what Jim started us off with was the current environment, which, you know, as someone who lives inside the Beltway, it’s always top of mind for me, and I’m sure it’s causing stress and uncertainty for all of you, too. So, Jim, what about point of care? Do you see that might resonate
with the Trump administration or with Secretary Kennedy or now Dr. Tish Pal ▷ 23:44 McCary, who will likely be confirmed.
Jim Potter ▷ 23:46 Right. So I think you want to pay attention to what they’re talking about or what they have talked about, because that’ll give you a good insight. If you look at Dr. McCarthy, he is essentially a more traditional now.
Jim Potter ▷ 24:01 He is, you know, likes to point at the healthcare system and say, okay, I don’t like the way these things work. But he’s more kind of a. Will be, I think, more of an incremental FDA commissioner. What they both share are things that we haven’t talked about as industry. It’s like food as medicine.
Jim Potter ▷ 24:21 And we really haven’t talked about chronic conditions. And how do you manage those? I mean, if you look at all the ad spends on GOP1s, it’s like, that’s great. You’re getting patients on. So the big questions are, okay, that comes back to your market is what happens when you decide to titrate off?
Jim Potter ▷ 24:46 How do you do that? Are you doing it with your provider’s help? What are those things that you have to have in place so GLP1s don’t become the new yo yo effect? Okay, I went off them, Boom, I’m back. And we’ve heard instances of that.
Jim Potter ▷ 25:00 So I think that’s what you have to be thinking about. You have to be thinking about, okay, how can we delve into more chronic conditions, particularly for children? Those are issues that they’re talking about. So I would have your research staffs and start thinking about those, because I think those are some of the issues that you’re going to see the administration press forward on in some meaningful way. There’s a lot of things they’re trying to slow down, cancel, cut, you know, get rid of.
Jim Potter ▷ 25:29 But those are some ideas that I think resonate with the president and resonate with the kind of two leading officials in the healthcare space.
Tish Pal ▷ 25:41 I noticed that you had slides up for some state activity, and it’s no accident. I mean, this is what we see in the states is that somebody’s out there peddling a bill, and that’s why you see the same language cropping up in Connecticut and in Texas and Oklahoma. Any guess? Any looking in your crystal ball?
Jim Potter ▷ 26:05 Yeah, there’s a number of groups that can be pedaling these ideas.
Jim Potter ▷ 26:11 We’ve looked into a couple who traditionally do this stuff, and they’re not touching it right now. So my guess is it’s probably closer to the source and they want to keep this issue burning. So the best way to do that, let’s just flip it out there in a dozen red states, they’ll keep it churning along. But what I want to also give you some assurance is the same legal work that we’d be doing for the federal front works for the state front, because every state constitution has a freedom of speech clause in it, at least all the ones I’ve looked at. So you can apply basically the same standards and then the federal preemptions that would essentially apply.
Jim Potter ▷ 26:54 So if a bill gets through, then you would expect us to challenge that bill on an unconstitutional basis.
Tish Pal ▷ 27:02 They do have a way of popping up and I don’t think we’ll all be able to rest easier until a lot of these states go out of session. And something else to keep in mind is that, you know, he was looking to Connecticut, you know, traditionally blue state, and then Oklahoma and Texas, traditionally red states. And so that’s something we want to emphasize is that this MAHA movement is not a traditional red, blue kind of distribution distinction.
Kim Maney ▷ 27:29 Bipartisan support.
Tish Pal ▷ 27:30 It’s very bipartisan. Yeah. Kim, do you have any thoughts?
Kim Maney ▷ 27:34 Yeah, I mean, I think that is, it’s, you know, unfortunately for pharma, we are a favorite for both sides to not, to not support. And I think direct to consumer advertising is something that we’ve seen in both.
Kim Maney ▷ 27:48 You know, we saw it in Biden administration, we saw it in Trump won and we’ll see it now. So it’s pretty consistent theme.
Tish Pal ▷ 27:56 It’s not very often that you see an alignment between say the nominee for HHS secretary in a Republican administration aligned with Senator Saunders from Vermont. But on something like dtc there is alignment. So you can’t assume that it’s these traditional alliances.
Tish Pal ▷ 28:17 You can go in to a red office and assume that you’ll get a sympathetic business ear or go into a blue office and you’ll be excoriated. It makes for very interesting bedfellows right now.
Kim Maney ▷ 28:34 And I think it goes to something that what the challenges are, the thing that is consistent is they really want to drive to limit interference with the practice of medicine. Right. They want doctors with patients kind of making, making decision.
Kim Maney ▷ 28:48 And so that is something that is, that’s consistent and they see kind of the, the direct to consumer advertising as driving more kind of pharma based health care instead of doctor based healthcare. I think point of care marketing also has a, an opportunity there because you have more time.
Jim Potter ▷ 29:10 You’re.
Kim Maney ▷ 29:11 It’s not an ad that’s kind, kind of coming across from what I’ve seen of the materials. There’s more information, it’s more in depth, there’s more time that people get to spend with it.
Kim Maney ▷ 29:24 So it is in a different, it can be seen to be in a different category than what is one to many advertising. Not that there’s anything wrong with one to many advertising. It is absolutely appropriate for most disease states. So anyway.
Tish Pal ▷ 29:41 But that’s a great way to sort of wrap up which is that, you know, we started at the beginning with how we go about defending the category and that a key part of Defense of the category is that it’s not deceptive and that you are able to articulate the benefits of it, how it’s advancing patient health. So I’ll ask first Jim and then Kim to talk a little bit more about why it is that we feel really good about the POC category and how we think it’s going to be helpful and different as this conversation moves forward. So, Jim, do you want to go first?
Jim Potter ▷ 30:21 Yeah, and I would. Besides having the talking points, I think you’d take a step back and say. Tish Pal ▷ 30:27 Could we get the slide back up instead of Jim’s beautiful smiling face? There we go.
Jim Potter ▷ 30:33 Beyond the talking points, take a step back. And if you want to influence policymakers, people who are not, take them through a patient. How would a patient come through?
Jim Potter ▷ 30:47 What are they going to feel like? What’s going to be their direct experience? So if I’m going to walk into Secretary Kennedy’s VATS office or one of his understatement, that’s what I want to be able to. When a patient walks in, this is what happens with them. This is the kind of information, this is how their time is used up.
Jim Potter ▷ 31:05 This is how they engage better with the practitioner to help joint decision making to have better positive outcomes for chronic diseases and other things, whatever that is. But take a step back from pitching pharma and say, okay, I need to pitch this to the world. I need to do this. This kind of has to be my step back to the elevator speech. So everybody really understands in kind of a simple, kind of patient centered way.
Jim Potter ▷ 31:33 Yeah. This is what you experience and you go, oh, that’s pretty cool. Yeah, I’d like that too. That’s what you want the reaction to be among legislators, to differentiate yourself. Right.
Kim Maney ▷ 31:45 And I guess I’ll say a little more about that, that I think the use cases and the examples are so important. I also support some legislative teams at gsk and you’d be shocked at how many at federal and state level legislatures. They don’t understand how the most basic things work because they are like distanced from them. I don’t get it. But they don’t understand.
Kim Maney ▷ 32:13 So they get told by lobbyist mostly about how things work and they paint them with a broad brush. So when you can demonstrate that. No, that’s not at all what we’re doing. Here is an example. Here’s the use case.
Kim Maney ▷ 32:32 Here is the information that a patient would receive about a vaccine that they can walk over and go and have a conversation with the pharmacist about. Here is information that a cancer patient might receive right before they’re walking in to talk to their doctor, or that a caregiver who’s not actually experiencing the disease but is caring for someone might be able to ask questions that are going to help them be a better caregiver, that they likely do not understand that that’s what’s happening.
Tish Pal ▷ 33:11 Do you see a lot of misunderstanding about the use of patient data and whether or not patient privacy is being respected?
Kim Maney ▷ 33:21 I do. I think that is like we’re, I think the US Is in a big transition point where Europe is already there in a big transition point about the use of patient data. And so I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. One thing that we spend a lot of time on with our legislative team is being able to explain about kind of clinical trials and clinical trial data and how that information is used.
Kim Maney ▷ 33:47 And we also spend a lot of time explaining about the protections for patient data. And now what I’m working on is making sure all those things that we are saying are true with all of our partners and looking at their privacy notices and making sure when you talk about data flows that it is the truth of the matter about how your data is used. If you are coming in to work with companies and saying, I can give you all this health information about this patient, my number one question to you will be how, when did they agree to that? How did they agree to that? So there are definitely, I think there’s some misunderstanding, but I think the US and all of us here in this room are on a journey.
Kim Maney ▷ 34:35 And that of course is not going to stop in. The Trump administration was already put together like a new kind of privacy committee. And of course we have now 19 states that have some form of a comprehensive privacy law and five more that have consumer health based privacy law. So it’s all Googleable, as I tell some of my clients, like nothing is happening to you. You can go online and kind of find out this information and just make sure what you’re doing is aligned with that.
Tish Pal ▷ 35:09 Well, and that goes to a point that you raised earlier, which is that when someone comes in, you want to be sure that they have at least heard of these things and are able to explain why something doesn’t apply, or if it does apply, what they’ve apply what they’ve done to conform and comply with it.
Kim Maney ▷ 35:26 Recognize the risk, mitigate the risk. That’s how you make lawyers happy. Yeah.
Jim Potter ▷ 35:33 No, that’s something that we do on a regular basis.
Jim Potter ▷ 35:38 We update all those state laws, put together summaries, put Together information so you can act upon it. So it’s there. It’s there for the taking.
Tish Pal ▷ 35:49 And where is that valuable resource, Jim?
Jim Potter ▷ 35:51 Well, that is on our website, which is.
Jim Potter ▷ 35:55 It is the www.cohealthcom.org. you can go there. And we’re a subsidiary of a larger organization called the Forays. And so I work with my colleagues in government relations and we compare and contrast between the healthcare sector and kind of the broader privacy bills to make sure that all that information is out and at your disposal.
Tish Pal ▷ 36:25 And Kim, where would you advise people to go to look for more information resources?
Kim Maney ▷ 36:31 Yes, you can. If you’re for privacy specifically, you can go to the iapp.com maybe it might be.org which is international association of Privacy Professionals. They have a lot of great information, particularly around kind of privacy issues as they impact ad tech. I get I don’t know how many articles from them every single day telling me things, but they have a lot of great resources on that website and a lot of great summaries, not only of the legislation that has already passed, but but what’s coming. So we spent as much time as we can trying to get in front of state laws to see if we can’t help legislators to understand some of the protections that are already in place around patient information so they don’t feel the need to overcorrect.
Tish Pal ▷ 37:22 I keep coming back to it, but I have a lot of clients who, when state legislatures are in session, they don’t get much sleep. And the reason for that is because Kim was describing with all the states that have their own privacy laws and so forth, is that when, in the absence of what’s referred to as federal preemption, which is that the federal law sets the national standard for everybody and it displaces, replaces any conflicting state law, although there are a lot of different nuances to that. In the absence of that, which is actually very rare, states are free to do whatever they want. And so they do. And what the challenge then is presented, and especially, I don’t know, I suppose this challenge has always been present, but I’m noticing it a lot more, is that you end up in a real challenge to any kind of a national campaign or national plan.
Tish Pal ▷ 38:20 If you are proposing to do anything on a national basis, you’ve got to look at all of the states in which you’re going to be running or marketing or selling, because you just never know what might be lurking. It’s an important part of your diligence. And if you are making a pitch to somebody you should expect that someone like Kim is going to be saying, so what are you doing to make sure that you are complying with 50. Kim Maney ▷ 38:44 Different state laws about Washington state anyway? That’s a kooky one.
Kim Maney ▷ 38:48 In Texas. That’s not a kooky one.
Tish Pal ▷ 38:50 Yeah, yeah, Texas. Who knew?
Kim Maney ▷ 38:53 Who knew?
Kim Maney ▷ 38:53 Right?
Tish Pal ▷ 38:56 So I am through all of my questions. Do you all have anything else you want to close with?
Kim Maney ▷ 39:06 No. No.
Tish Pal ▷ 39:06
Kim Maney ▷ 39:08 Well, I mean, maybe encourage everyone to come pitch at GSK and I’ll talk to you more about, you can learn all about the, you know, the, the limitations of your privacy program and. Happy to. For free.
Jim Potter ▷ 39:24 And I’ll just go back to the core message. Know that there are people, organizations looking that, that are, you know, are part of this audience here today that are members, our board members. And we’re looking ahead to, to defend against what we think could be very, very, very detrimental. Any of these things happen and we panic. And actually that’s what the administration wants.
Jim Potter ▷ 39:50 They would love that. For two weeks, everybody pulls back all their ad buys. Everybody goes into a corner and they get more leverage. So I echo my stay the course. Listen, double down.
Jim Potter ▷ 40:01 If you’re not a member, be a member. Because these are the times that we need you and I think you need us to effectuate something that’s good for not only your businesses, but good for patients and good for the U.S. economy.
Tish Pal ▷ 40:17 Well, and that’s actually a really good point. Is that something we have seen now quite a bit.
Tish Pal ▷ 40:22 Is that just retreating back into your foxhole and hoping that it will go away doesn’t work in this environment? You have to defend what you’re doing. You have to defend the role that you are playing in educating patients while also presenting non misleading communication that is enhancing that important dialogue between a patient and the healthcare provider. You’ve got to own it and be proud of it because if you try and retreat, you’re just going to get run over. And I would say that that’s a bit of free legal counsel that I have.
Kim Maney ▷ 40:56 There you go.
Tish Pal ▷ 40:58 No charge.
Jim Potter ▷ 41:00 I’m not a lawyer. I play a physician on TV in front of legislators. They’re good there too.
Tish Pal ▷ 41:07 All right, so I think we are concluded and Nicole, I think is going to go up.
Kim Maney Oh, I see. ▷ 41:11
Tish Pal ▷ 41:12 Oh, and we’ll be around if you have other questions. We didn’t do a Q and A because we knew that we would have a lot to talk about. So if you all want to talk to us afterwards, we’re, you know, here till Thursday.
Tish Pal ▷ 41:24 Try the veal.
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